Author Topic: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI  (Read 2871 times)

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Orin Offline

[Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« on: April 13, 2017, 04:20:47 PM »
Following Jeshin's format:

Name: Winter is Coming
Core Theme: A song of ice and fire (Game of Thrones)
Sub Theme: Territorial disputes (Siege of other House's castles, raiding of their economic builds)

Setting: Winter is Coming is a permadeath RPI setting in the A Song of Ice and Fire world by George R.R. Martin.  Players typically would start out as commoner class guilds which are common in most MUDs.  These guilds (warrior/soldier, thief/spy, ranger/raider, merchant/crafter) are very much the building blocks of the nobility class.  The noble class runs various regions of the game world, and are always vying for control of more land and resources.  While the nobles can build various buildings, NPC armies, and improve the region, without the commoner classes backing them their region will fail and they can be easily overthrown. 

Location: The game would start between two sections of Westeros, likely the Vale of Arryn and the Riverlands.  This would allow players to war against an opposite nation and for staff to build out further locations, documentation, lore, and so on.

Feature List: Economic/nation building, war and pvp -- buildings built by nobles may start as things like farms, houses, barracks, mills, blacksmiths, mines, banks, markets, and other typical functions of a real world economy.  Each of these buildings provide commodities such as food, wood, metals, weapons/armor, luxury goods, and of course taxes.  With all of these commodities you would be able to perform actions such as increasing your population of workers (requires food/housing), increasing your militia/army (with food/barracks/tax money), and so on.  As your nation is built up, you can send NPC armies out to protect your lands or raid other regions.  Commoners such as soldiers can use these armies to defend, attack, or blockade areas in game.  Other classes have distinct job roles they can perform to help build their nation up, and all classes have a purpose to that end.

Playstyle: The code provides a basis for groups to work together to an end goal.  Within this idea I see strategic resources becoming a flash point between nations (if you only have one iron mine, you can only build so many pieces of armor) and smaller battles occurring frequently.  Playing a merchant or noble may allow for those who want to tavern sit and focus on RP a chance to do so, planning strategic attacks on their enemies or betraying those around them for personal gain.  Playing a more commoner class allows those who enjoy combat, PvP, and exploration a world to fight over.


Note: As the game starts it would likely focus mostly on nation building, bug fixes, balance issues, and further building.  Staff would permit players who have proven themselves as being able to roleplay chances to play higher guilds and sponsored roles.  They would also have the ability to enact world events such as famines, floods, disease, raiders (random NPC's which make keeping your nation safe rather difficult), and maybe even a magickal calamity or two.  All of the game world events would take place before the War of the Five Kings.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 09:19:06 PM »
It's an interesting concept, and one i'd play for sure.

I think IP is interesting. In one sense, it gives you a foundation and a backdrop that's pretty damn successful as it is. You don't need to reinvent the wheel -- Someone already did that for you.

On the converse, it can be limiting, because breaking away from it will drive away the 'die hards' and the people who aren't convinced you're as much of a die hard as they are. Shadows of Isildur falls into this category, for instance. While i'm sure many people who played SoI were unfamiliar or not as well versed with Lord of the Rings than some others, it took at least an appreciation and understanding of LoTR to play well.

Then again, IP can be so distant from the product and used as an inspiration, that it doesn't really matter at all. ArmageddonMUD is a good example of this. While it's based in Dark Sun (loosely), it's different enough that if you have no familiarity with Dark Sun, it won't hinder your concepts/playability.

If I came across this game -- ASoFIA MUD, Perma-death, PvP, RPI -- I'd at the very least try it. While that series isn't my favorite (though I love the TV show), i'd love to play a PC so far in the past that it has no bearing on the story that the series follows in 'present tense'.

----

While I like the idea of 'nation building', this touches on a bit of the ideas brought up in another thread of spreading yourself too thin. Considering it would probably have a small playerbase, i'd just open up 3-4 'Noble/Lord/Lady' roles to people interested in playing the game upfront, or invite them to play the roles yourself. Allow for a great amount of mobility -- A Commoner, by circumstances plain and simple, could possibly become a Knight/Ser. A Knight could become disgraced, and have to flee to work for another Lord/Lady. A Noble/Lord/Lady can rise to become the head of their House -- Because as we know from the series, Houses are a dime a dozen, and if your House falls? All the better for the story.

Houses can also become virtual or not in the foreground -- So if someone does something stupid and gets their Lord killed, the House doesn't just blow up. It opens up room for another person to step in.

Dangerous activities would be encouraged for Lords/Ladies, so they aren't sitting pretty in their castles and avoiding death for years on end. Hunts, going to battle, taking part in the nitty and gritty, would be a part of daily life.

NPC armies of opposing Houses could be assigned to patrol their own lands (Split into perhaps 2-4 pieces, so not all areas could be actively patrolled). They could be assigned to attack another Lord/Lady's holdings. They could be garrisoned in a building/area of the Lady/Lord's choice (or someone of rank's choice).

Each House could specialize in two fields -- Natural Resources, Defense, Offense, Information, Valor/Honor, Reknown, Corrupt, Wealth, etc. These would provide natural resources, more soldiers, better soldiers, more information about other House's soldier movements, soldiers with higher morale but lower health, different types of soldiers, stealthy soldiers, or more starting coin.

---

As far as the Commoner game -- One could play from a lowly beggar, to a lumberjack, to a tradesman, to a Maester, to a Soldier, to a Knight. As far as limiting these roles -- Don't! If people wish to only play Knights, let it be so. If they'd like to just play tradespeople, let it be so! I'd be interested to see what people would gravitate towards, personally.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 10:26:51 PM »
Some thoughts on commoner classes (if that would even be a thing, perhaps characters should have no classes and simply decide what skills to level):

Warrior/Soldier - If associated with a House, can give orders to NPC armies, break them into batallions, station them, order to guard certain directions, force a toll on those that pass, and so on.  They direct the military forces of the region at their noble's orders, or go against them if their strategic choices make more sense.  Tournaments can be held to show off combat prowess and tests of skill.  Eventually could become a Knight/Ser, which could give boons to NPC and PC characters nearby (maybe a +1 to defense or combat depending on specialization).  If not associated with a House, can become a Mercenary whose focus is only coin, offering their services to the highest bidder or noble who plays the economic game the best.

Thief/Spy - These types are able to live off of the economic activity of a region, through stealing from NPC's in markets or villages to breaking in to warehouses to steal commodities (luxury goods) and sell in other towns.  When working for a House, they could find themselves doing the same in other regions, bringing back profits to their respective nobles.  A specialization of thief is the spy, which can make some NPC's offer up information such as troop movements, names of PC's that passed by recently, and other information gathering tasks.  Think the little birds of GoT.

More to come.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2017, 02:00:31 AM »
It's interesting when you talk about 'nation building' as the theme of the game. Instead of narrowing the scope to the micro (You play a Thief that is stealing from NPCs to make a living, you are a soldier in the army), why not macro the scale upwards? Or at least allow for that potential.

I know that i'd love to play a MUD where effectively you are the Senior (title), allowing for greater mobility of plots without Staff oversight, but there are certainly bigger/big fish left in the pond to fuck up your day. Meaning while you can achieve higher status, make your mark (and be vulnerable to death the whole time), there are still other big players both NPC and PC that can and will ruin your parade.

So -- Allowing for a craftsman to open their own crafting hall, and then possibly move on to be the 'Guildmaster' for the area, while pacing everyone else at a similar pace -- And also stoking conflict to mash the pieces together -- sounds like a wonderful chaotic mess.

As far as marketing/timing, it's great, because there's still books being made (unlike LoTR or WoT), it's a popular IP (people are going to be looking for something to do akin to it once the books are done or George dies, or the show is over, or both), and they'll be looking up 'A song of fire and ice game' 'game of thrones game'.

The other high point for the IP is there is an expected 'OH FUCK' ness that is built in. People accept and anticipate people they know and love dying horrible untimely deaths. There is a built in anticlimacticness to people you know and love dying or terrible shit happening to them when they least expect it. There is an expectance to create elaborate plots against other people.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 02:07:17 AM by Reiloth »
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 03:06:38 AM »
I've put a little more thought into this, and perhaps this is deranged.

MUDs in general operate on the assumption that you are playing a 24/7 gaming environment that goes on with or without you. Staff may or may not be around. They may or may not help. Players may or may not be around. They may or may not interact with you. Oops they died, anticlimax to your RPI story.

What if you combined the concept of MUD and 'forum game' or 'instance dungeon'. So -- Staff create a scenario within the universe of a game. There are concepts within that 'scenario' available for play. So you might have something like:

House Baratheon
*Noble Lord/Lady within House Baratheon
*Advisor/Maester within House Baratheon
*Ser/Knight within House Baratheon
*Captain of Arms/Ser within House Baratheon
*Common Soldier
*Common Soldier

These people are isolated for a time, building on their own plots, seeded plots by a Staff member, and generally observed/interacted with in that environment. Think of times where people are incubated throughout the series in their keeps and castles. Some 'Hunt' RPTs are advertised, and skirmishes with minor House NPC units, things of this sort. Mortality is possible of course, but not encouraged or 'pitted' yet. While these are the 'sponsored roles' if you want to call it that, more players can end up playing, but they start off as commoners within that House's keep.

Similar scenario/rivals are started elsewhere in the game world, with the same sort of incubation. Stories, plotlines, people get to know each other, care for each other.

House Bolton
*Noble Lord/Lady within House Bolton
*Advisor/Maester within House Bolton
*Ser/Knight within House Bolton
*Captain of Arms/Ser within House Bolton
*Common Soldier
*Common Soldier

Both scenarios are allowed to exist in conjunction with one another, but with little to no overlap.

Then, the scenarios are merged.

Treat it like a 'capture the flag' team, in a sense. Neutral territory between the two 'keeps' is fair game, capturable by assigned NPC units. As one side gains more territory, they're given more NPC units, resources, and so on. The game shifts from the individual to the more 'nation building' side of things. RPTs are scheduled for army to army combat. One side wins, the other loses. Remaining PCs (if still existing, such as the Maester role or Noble) are stored or killed dramatically, if the opportunity presents itself.

New scenario is put up. The 'winner' sticks around.

Seemingly combining a lot of the aspects into one. RPI, Strategy, Permadeath, meaningful plots/relationships, squelching and heart string tearing at their destruction, and so on. By isolating the scenarios to their keep for, say, a RL month or so, and then merging with another scenario that had a similar incubation, you're going to have conflict from the get go.

Each Staff member could monitor and freely animate for each Scenario.

People might wonder/worry about multiple PCs or 'spying' on the other Scenario. Let them! Even if they are a 'sponsored role', they could only make a commoner for the other side. And a commoner shouldn't/wouldn't be let in on the secret goings on, only be able to report on the broad strokes. Let that paranoia feed into the system/game, and take advantage of it, turn it into an asset.

On the other hand, you could keep a 'defeated' scenario House around. Let them build up from the ashes, just don't give them additional PCs / NPCs to start. That also seems a really 'ASoFaI' theme, as well.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 03:14:26 AM by Reiloth »
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 12:26:17 PM »
I do like the idea of more neutral territories in between each region that have a variety of resources to fight over, as well as giving each side chances to build up before such events.  I'm also complete open to players running the in game economies, clans, and giving them the freedom to play however they like.

More on classes, or skill trees:

Rangers/raiders -- Often seen as the front line and guerrilla fighters in most wars, this class typically finds themselves roaming solo or within small groups.  Performing hit and run attacks on encampments of soldiers or the armies of the enemy, they excel at sneaking and hiding in the wilderness, as well as launching volleys of arrows and then retreating quickly.  When not engaged in combat operations, rangers find themselves learning the secrets of herbology, setting traps or snares in the wild, providing hides and other resources to markets, or operating independently.  It is not uncommon to find a ranger living on their own in the woods, or groups of rangers who refuse to bend to the knee to the local Lord or Lady.  A good example of this would be the Brotherhood without Banners.

Merchant/crafter -- No House would be complete without a master of coin, and those who have a talent for numbers are sought out at a young age.  Merchants know how to convert one coin into ten through savvy business operations, haggling with local or foreign market NPC's, identifying how and where items have been made, and often have a silver tongue when it comes to dealing with nobility.  Many merchants choose to go the route of the crafter, specializing in armor, weaponry, clothing, tools, and items which can vary by regional tastes.  As merchants continue to grow in their profession, they often decide to put up their own store front.  Stocking with items they have crafted themselves or going by the old adage "buy low and sell high", this allows them to bring in passive income with far less effort.  Due to the nature of such establishments, merchants often will hire their own mercenaries to stand guard, escort them around villages, or otherwise keep their investments safe.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2017, 06:00:53 PM »
I'm seeing some serious issues with this idea, at least as far as the implementation has been laid out here.  Let me lead in with my understanding of how you guys are suggesting making the game, so if I got something wrong you can address that instead...

It sounds like what you're shooting for is a game with Region vs. Region [RvR] combat handled primarily by NPC armies (possibly simulated battles rather than actual in-game ones) commanded by noble PCs.  Nobles also build buildings and such, kind of like in a 4X game.  At the same time, you want commoner PCs who somehow influence how these battles go, maybe, in some indirect manner relating to meta resources.  Except rangers, who will apparently be doing attacks on NPC encampments.

The problem is there's too much division between incompatible parts.  You've got the nobles, who it sounds like won't have anything to do when they aren't issuing orders to NPCs.  The only thing they can do with non-noble PCs is slow them down, since the commoner PCs would basically have to stop what they were doing to interact with nobles.  You've got PCs who really can only interact with each other, with some of them able to risk getting killed by massive groups of NPCs.  What they can do with each other is a mystery, since there's such a huge divide between commanding huge NPC groups and pretty much any other aspect of gameplay.  Now you're thinking of adding neutral areas, which will probably draw away a lot of PCs who don't want to get murdered by large groups of NPCs.

You're basically creating a minimum of 3 PC cultures that have no motivation to interact beyond RP flavor.  Plus, there's very little chance you will have enough players to support this thing out of the door, so there's going to be a lot of nothing happening.

That's my understanding of it.  On to alternatives...



RvR - Throw out NPC armies as an idea.  The only thing they'll do is afford the playerbase something to get pointlessly killed by if they do anything but watch.  Instead, these forces will be a constant simulation going on for all sides in all locations.  Something going on in the background everywhere.  Nobles will have indirect command over these armies unless they were physically in contact with them.  Otherwise, all communication would be done using messages; these are physical objects that have to be transported and can be read/altered by literate PCs.  Nobles will use these set how much training is going on, how aggressive they should be, where they should be concentrating their forces, as well as receive information back about what is going on.  The catch is, the armies may not be able to follow commands; things may escalate unexpectedly, they may not get the orders relayed, etc.  Major battles could result without opposing nobles even meaning for them to happen.

While this all is going on, it should influence regions indirectly in ways the playerbase cannot escape feeling.  If a side loses territory, it could cause anything from food shortages to increased costs for leather goods to an easier atmosphere for raiders to operate in.  Winning battles might cause an influx of resources or swag.  That kind of thing.  Players should have social/environmental commands that allow them to figure out what the situation is in a civilized area based on how long they've been there.

Areas these simulated forces are fighting in should drop descriptions in neighboring areas and leave behind items, bodies, etc.

Nobles - In addition to sending orders to forces afield, they manage areas they are in. Mainly this is by setting buildings to be built/demolished, but cannot build them.  Buildings will be built slowly by VNPCs, or more quickly by PCs either working on them or bringing resources to the sites.  They would also have command over the NPC guards in their areas, control the crimcode, that kind of thing.  Nobles would still need to involve themselves with combat PCs as well, for dealing with raiders (you could allow PCs to handle this, or autogenerate NPCs when there are not enough PCs doing it), and for making their way to conquered areas to coordinate rebuilding.

Only problem is you'd have to come up with something if you want nobles to be able to travel with forces or if you really wanted them involved in a battle.  Maybe just have a staffer around to spawn NPCs for when room echoes aren't enough?

Commoners - Mainly take the place of NPCs/VNPCs who are less effective at doing everything.  PCs would deliver messages between nobles and their forces, gather resources, scout, raid, etc.  One of the few roles that would be PC-only would be spies.  This would both be directly from interacting with other PCs and indirectly, though staying in an area and using the social/envornmental observation commands to gather information.  They could (obviously) join the other side, in addition to intercepting messages and/or altering their contents.

Like the nobles, the only thing I haven't worked out is how they'd participate in large-scale conflicts directly.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2017, 06:06:45 PM by Many Faces »

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2017, 06:52:28 PM »
I'm seeing some serious issues with this idea, at least as far as the implementation has been laid out here.  Let me lead in with my understanding of how you guys are suggesting making the game, so if I got something wrong you can address that instead...

It sounds like what you're shooting for is a game with Region vs. Region [RvR] combat handled primarily by NPC armies (possibly simulated battles rather than actual in-game ones) commanded by noble PCs.  Nobles also build buildings and such, kind of like in a 4X game.  At the same time, you want commoner PCs who somehow influence how these battles go, maybe, in some indirect manner relating to meta resources.  Except rangers, who will apparently be doing attacks on NPC encampments.

The problem is there's too much division between incompatible parts.  You've got the nobles, who it sounds like won't have anything to do when they aren't issuing orders to NPCs.  The only thing they can do with non-noble PCs is slow them down, since the commoner PCs would basically have to stop what they were doing to interact with nobles.  You've got PCs who really can only interact with each other, with some of them able to risk getting killed by massive groups of NPCs.  What they can do with each other is a mystery, since there's such a huge divide between commanding huge NPC groups and pretty much any other aspect of gameplay.  Now you're thinking of adding neutral areas, which will probably draw away a lot of PCs who don't want to get murdered by large groups of NPCs.

You're basically creating a minimum of 3 PC cultures that have no motivation to interact beyond RP flavor.  Plus, there's very little chance you will have enough players to support this thing out of the door, so there's going to be a lot of nothing happening.

That's my understanding of it.  On to alternatives...


Those are fair points. I think by having NPC units be the background flavor and 'consequence' of actions that Noble PCs make, and by not having them 'targetable' or able to target PCs, you remove the worry of insta-gib Death Squads roaming the landscape, making short work of any and all PCs in their path.

My idea is (personally) to make all the PCs slightly above the 'bottom dregs'. While you could certainly play a nobody beggar or a farmer or a mercenary, it'd be cool to start off in the game with control over a small group of NPCs. Instead of working yourself up for grueling months to a point where you can open a shop, start a PC and have a shop with an NPC shopkeeper as an instance (so it loads around your PC, and if you don't log in or if you die, the shop closes). Allow 'rangers' to be free form fighting men/women, with the detailed things Orin put above, and have them be more of the 'Solo PvE Class'. Have soldiers start as Corporals or 'slightly higher than Private', giving them a few NPCs to put under their wing.

One could argue that Nobles in any sort of game setting don't have anything to do if they aren't ordering NPCs around -- But this is where the RPI aspect comes in. As masters of their hold, they can/will interact with their populace, and the other PCs under them/around them. Just as in any RPI, you have to make your own fun with plots and story, and not rely purely on code to do the work for you (and rarely Staff, in my personal opinion).

Neutral areas (again IMHO) could be opened or closed when 'scenarios' are merged. So they aren't free for all gain for anyone -- Unaffiliated people could squat in them / trade in outposts, but not 'conquer' the territory in the same way affiliated House members could.

Quote

RvR - Throw out NPC armies as an idea.  The only thing they'll do is afford the playerbase something to get pointlessly killed by if they do anything but watch.  Instead, these forces will be a constant simulation going on for all sides in all locations.  Something going on in the background everywhere.  Nobles will have indirect command over these armies unless they were physically in contact with them.  Otherwise, all communication would be done using messages; these are physical objects that have to be transported and can be read/altered by literate PCs.  Nobles will use these set how much training is going on, how aggressive they should be, where they should be concentrating their forces, as well as receive information back about what is going on.  The catch is, the armies may not be able to follow commands; things may escalate unexpectedly, they may not get the orders relayed, etc.  Major battles could result without opposing nobles even meaning for them to happen.

While this all is going on, it should influence regions indirectly in ways the playerbase cannot escape feeling.  If a side loses territory, it could cause anything from food shortages to increased costs for leather goods to an easier atmosphere for raiders to operate in.  Winning battles might cause an influx of resources or swag.  That kind of thing.  Players should have social/environmental commands that allow them to figure out what the situation is in a civilized area based on how long they've been there.

Areas these simulated forces are fighting in should drop descriptions in neighboring areas and leave behind items, bodies, etc.


I agree with some of this, but I think the NPC army units are a neat idea (or just giving more control of NPC units/NPCs to PCs in general, pitted against each other). Removing the ability for ordered NPCs to attack PCs still allows PCs to come into conflict with each other (with their NPCs) -- They simply can't order NPCs to kill a PC, and roaming death squads wouldn't happen/be possible codedly.

In my divergent mind, the 'neutral' territory (once open) would look a bit like a chess board. Each day (or less, depending), Nobles from each side could assign NPC units to different quadrants within the neutral territory. If/when the NPC units come into conflict with each other, they clash until one side is dead or the NPC unit flees. PCs can attack each other in these rooms as well -- And PC deaths within the rooms would sway an NPC unit to win or lose.

Quote

Nobles - In addition to sending orders to forces afield, they manage areas they are in. Mainly this is by setting buildings to be built/demolished, but cannot build them.  Buildings will be built slowly by VNPCs, or more quickly by PCs either working on them or bringing resources to the sites.  They would also have command over the NPC guards in their areas, control the crimcode, that kind of thing.  Nobles would still need to involve themselves with combat PCs as well, for dealing with raiders (you could allow PCs to handle this, or autogenerate NPCs when there are not enough PCs doing it), and for making their way to conquered areas to coordinate rebuilding.

Only problem is you'd have to come up with something if you want nobles to be able to travel with forces or if you really wanted them involved in a battle.  Maybe just have a staffer around to spawn NPCs for when room echoes aren't enough?

I like all these ideas. I think a Noble should be able to go with/do what they want within reason. It's very within the IP to get killed for making stupid mistakes, like going on a hunting trip while you're at war and getting killed in an ambush.

Quote

Commoners - Mainly take the place of NPCs/VNPCs who are less effective at doing everything.  PCs would deliver messages between nobles and their forces, gather resources, scout, raid, etc.  One of the few roles that would be PC-only would be spies.  This would both be directly from interacting with other PCs and indirectly, though staying in an area and using the social/envornmental observation commands to gather information.  They could (obviously) join the other side, in addition to intercepting messages and/or altering their contents.

Like the nobles, the only thing I haven't worked out is how they'd participate in large-scale conflicts directly.

I think there's a way of making the 'macro' battle happen on a scale with NPC to NPC combat, where the NPCs can be either better equipped, have better stats through bonuses applied by the Noble's House, and a degree of luck. NPC units / forces arrive and clash with one another, fleeing, taking up positions elsewhere. Single NPCs can and will target PCs, but will not be of a power (by themselves) to slay a PC. A group of single NPCs though would be problematic.

PCs can be involved in the combat, but only against other PCs and single NPCs. There would need to be some kind of mechanic where only 1-3 people can engage each other at a time, avoiding pile-ups of NPCs and also of PCs. Depending either on a skill or something like that (so a talented swordsman could engage up to three opponents at a time for a brief period before succumbing to exhaustion, while a not-so-talented swordsman would be overwhelmed by two from the get go).

Large scale combat isn't something i've seen successfully accomplished in MUDs -- I'd be curious to see what safeguards/skills/ideas could be applied to a scenario to make it fun to watch (NPCs vs NPCs) and also fun/thrilling to participate in. Most of what i've seen are spam fests where your PC and other PCs die before you can get through the screen scroll. That'd be something that would need addressing from the get.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2017, 09:31:12 PM »
The main concerns I had, which roll into why I suggested what I did, can be summed up as:
1) How do you make this game work when there are only a few people playing it?
2) How do you link the noble's part of the game to everyone else's in a way that makes it a benefit for nobles and commoners to interact?

If this game gets made it will be new at some point.  When it's a new game it's going to have a small number of players.  That number probably won't budge for a while.  A lot of the stuff I've seen from you guys sound great when you've got 300 players and 120 on at peak, but I'm not seeing it working when you've got 20 players and 8 are only around for off-peak hours.  Cut that in half, you've got 4 - 6 people spread between 2 regions.

That's the game you have to design for.

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2017, 12:54:56 AM »
The feedback so far has been great, and I appreciate the input everyone has given so far.  I think it is safe to say that:

+ Given the IP, it would be safe to assume there should be a request sent to the owner GRRM/publisher to ensure a request was sent (whether or not it is replied to)
+ Realm vs. Realm is not a bad idea, but NPC's controlling it may not be in the best interest of allowing PC's to control the world
+ Resources should definitely be things to fight over and control, but how that control is achieved is still up for debate
+ A neutral zone or area not controlled by a great House should be the midlands in between two great Houses, which could be fought over but not reduce either House beyond its original means of production (bonuses can be won, but you won't fall below the original 100% and find it not worth continuing to play)

Some of the ideas presented may be pipe dreams, while some may be achievable.  If there aren't any blockers to putting a foundation in place, I'll throw out a call for mud staff eventually.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Daed Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2017, 03:13:02 PM »
I wanted to do something nearly exactly like this, with the Wall acting as the game's Alpha to teach player's systems, etc.
Daed is the story administrator for Haven.

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2017, 03:39:00 PM »
I've reached out to the publisher noting that I'm interested in pursuing a MUD based on ASOIAF, as well as the following points:

1. This is -not- a game that will ever ask for money from players.
2. Any costs associated with this project would be paid out of pocket by the staff members, and no monetary compensation would ever be sought for this work or anything associated with it.
3. We will respect the publisher and author's right to request the project be stopped at any time for any reason.

Auto-reply notes it can take up to two weeks to review the email and get back to the sender.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2017, 03:45:55 PM by Orin »
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Daed Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2017, 07:58:58 PM »
I do believe a better setting would be the Reach and Dorne fighting over a place, possibly the Prince's Pass. They're constantly at it in the lore, and you can showcase the differences in environment, from the grassy and fertile lands of the Reach to the sandy dunes of Dorne. Also the vast culture differences might be a nice appeal, since Dorne is more progressive.
Daed is the story administrator for Haven.

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2017, 08:03:00 PM »
... but Dorne was booooorrrrrrinnnngggg...

Also, it was a little far to be one of only two warring sides in Westeros, wasn't it?

Jeshin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2017, 08:26:02 PM »
You could do the early history of Dorne when the Rhoynar invaded fleeing the dragon kings of Volantis and took over the territory.

Daed Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2017, 08:29:42 PM »
Dorne and the Reach are pretty close, in fact, after the Conquest of Dorne the Targaryens made the Martells the Tyrell's vassals (which of course just led to a rebellion incredibly quickly). Dorne can be made interesting, I think, especially with the different way they handle things compared to the rest of Westeros, like relationships, ethnicity, and the like.
Daed is the story administrator for Haven.

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2017, 08:49:41 PM »
I fear it'd be too similar to ArmageddonMUD and its environs, 3ven skin deep. I'd prefer the more European environs personally.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2017, 12:22:16 AM »
You could do the early history of Dorne when the Rhoynar invaded fleeing the dragon kings of Volantis and took over the territory.
If you go that route, all new characters should start the game running and on fire.

Daed Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2017, 01:26:20 AM »
I fear it'd be too similar to ArmageddonMUD and its environs, 3ven skin deep. I'd prefer the more European environs personally.

That's exactly why you'd also have the Reach. To show both sides.
Daed is the story administrator for Haven.

Jeshin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2017, 01:32:36 AM »
Minor comment on this pitch before I get into a large commentary later. Just because something might be like something else, don't shy away from it. If it's well executed and if it has a vision of its own any similarities will be just that similarities. Besides having aspects shared with another game just makes your game more accessible to players that played that game and are looking for something new.

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2017, 10:44:48 AM »
I think in time it would be great to have Dorne as an additional area.  The RP potential is massive to have it there as a backdrop with the same mechanics as the rest of what I outlined.  I'd worry about spreading the game too thin by having multiple great Houses available for play to start, so it's kind of a "do we do it now or do we do it later" question to ask.

Still waiting for the publisher's feedback on whether we are able to proceed.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #21 on: April 19, 2017, 11:57:10 AM »
I think in time it would be great to have Dorne as an additional area.  The RP potential is massive to have it there as a backdrop with the same mechanics as the rest of what I outlined.  I'd worry about spreading the game too thin by having multiple great Houses available for play to start, so it's kind of a "do we do it now or do we do it later" question to ask.

Still waiting for the publisher's feedback on whether we are able to proceed.

Would areas of the game be easily traveled between by caravan perhaps?

I could see multiple areas in the game world being accessible if they were relatively small, but you could get to them in short(ish) periods of time.

Having the capability for 'fast travel' obviously has room for abuse unless clearly thought through. Following Witcher 3 as an example, only having you capable of fast traveling to places you have already been to/discovered, and you can only fast travel from certain points.

Creating an instance route for caravans, that can be waylaid or encounter random bandits might be a cool way of doing it. So in your 'neutral zone', or perhaps in several random areas in the world, the caravan will 'appear' when it has travelers going from point A to point B. Raider PCs can waylay these routes, and can find out in civilization when/where these caravans are leaving. PCs can also hire on as guards/mercenaries for the caravan from the 'Caravan Master' NPC in town. People who want to travel from area to area have to look at the schedule for caravans and pay fare, and arrive at the right time.

You can also work on and open new areas of the game more easily, by creating new routes that open up (or even close up due to IC events/nations warring/weather problems).
« Last Edit: April 19, 2017, 12:00:07 PM by Reiloth »
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #22 on: April 19, 2017, 12:26:45 PM »
I'd worry about spreading the game too thin by having multiple great Houses available for play to start, so it's kind of a "do we do it now or do we do it later" question to ask.
Why not start smaller by only picking one region and have the Houses of it fighting to be the great one?

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #23 on: April 19, 2017, 12:41:21 PM »
I'd worry about spreading the game too thin by having multiple great Houses available for play to start, so it's kind of a "do we do it now or do we do it later" question to ask.
Why not start smaller by only picking one region and have the Houses of it fighting to be the great one?

+1.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Jeshin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2017, 12:57:28 PM »
We literally added a like button to allow for +1s without having to post it!

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2017, 01:34:34 PM »
We literally added a like button to allow for +1s without having to post it!
He's just posting and double-posting to artificially pass my post count.  :(

... but on-topic, OP, are you going to allow internal strife within the areas controlled by the Great Houses?  Would players be able to pull something like the Boltons making themselves wardens of the North, for example?

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2017, 01:41:02 PM »
We literally added a like button to allow for +1s without having to post it!
He's just posting and double-posting to artificially pass my post count.  :(

... but on-topic, OP, are you going to allow internal strife within the areas controlled by the Great Houses?  Would players be able to pull something like the Boltons making themselves wardens of the North, for example?

+1

On that topic, i'd say fuck yeah (personally). There are so many Lesser Houses (which should probably be the playable Houses) that departing from the IP and having those Houses gut each other would just make for a better story, IMHO.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2017, 02:12:26 PM »
I do like the idea of smaller houses being able to vie for control of regional fortifications, resources, and so on.  It's in the books, so why not in game? While some die hard fans may not like the idea of this, I think from a playability standpoint it is probably the best way to go about things.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2017, 07:32:18 PM »

Cartheon Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2017, 09:37:38 PM »
As has been discussed on MU Soapbox, ASIOF only has one official MU* server "Blood of Dragons." The staff of the server and GRRM are pretty unyielding about others wanting to run a server with that IP.

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2017, 12:49:31 PM »
Between this and the Discord conversation, I think that unless GRRM or his publisher give you permission, you should make an original game in the style of ASOIAF.  I know you had doubts you could flesh out a world that big, but realistically you were going to have to make up a ton of new names for things anyways.  You'd just have to come up with more last names as well and your own map.

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2017, 01:52:25 PM »
Using a different setting or theme with the same mechanics is a possibility.  Obviously I'd rather go with a known setting due to the RPI potential, but if there's something else that could be on par I'd be interested in pursuing that as well.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2017, 02:05:13 PM »
Using a different setting or theme with the same mechanics is a possibility.  Obviously I'd rather go with a known setting due to the RPI potential, but if there's something else that could be on par I'd be interested in pursuing that as well.

Would be glad to help you come up with similar original content. I can get lots of words on paper in a short period of time.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2017, 05:44:42 PM »
Using a different setting or theme with the same mechanics is a possibility.  Obviously I'd rather go with a known setting due to the RPI potential, but if there's something else that could be on par I'd be interested in pursuing that as well.
You were always going to have to figure out magic rules anyhow.  The books were incredibly vague about the subject.

I wouldn't worry too much, though.  You could easily give people a totally original experience that still reflects ASOIAF.  Hell, why not... uh... I think I just came up with a pitch.  I'm going to go make a thread for it, but have you considered going with a Hollow Earth setting?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2017, 06:50:36 PM by Many Faces »

Jeshin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #34 on: April 24, 2017, 10:09:15 AM »
If you enjoy the Witcher, Icarus from SOI has obtained permission to use their IP meaning you likely can as well.

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #35 on: April 24, 2017, 11:37:25 AM »
I do like the Witcher, but haven't read any of the books.  That's usually where the meat of the story is.

I did some research on the other ASOIAF games out there today... logged into them, wandered around a bit, gave each of them a chance, and took notes on what they did well.  There are at least a couple out there that are not officially sanctioned, so it's really just a fancy way of advertising your mud.  Given that those other MUDs probably only asked permission but didn't get it on some set of conditions (don't make our IP look bad or you'll get a cease and desist), it seems slightly more acceptable to make this game.

I've settled on the Evennia/Ainneve codebase despite some things I don't like about it.  It seems like it would be the easiest to contribute code to, upgrade, and modify.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #36 on: April 24, 2017, 03:30:48 PM »
Woo hoo!
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #37 on: April 24, 2017, 05:23:20 PM »
Did you decide on which area(s) to start the game with as playable options?

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2017, 11:06:02 AM »
I'd personally be down with (In order):
The North
The Wall (Maybe always open?)
The Riverlands
The Eyrie
King's Landing
Dorne
Esos

It'd be great if you coded your crimcode to have a chance you're taken out of your jail cell and transported to the Wall.
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2017, 08:56:48 AM »
I think the Wall would be a good newbie area to learn the ropes of the game, and also give an opportunity for PvE against wildlings. Once comfortable with this environment, the North and Riverlands would be a good area for PvP.  All of these regions have great potential for RP, whether it is keeping the realms of man safe from wildlings, visiting Moletown, protecting the North from raiders who slip past the wall, or the love/hate relationship of the Starks and Boltons and Freys.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Nimrod Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2017, 09:09:41 PM »
I would play this.

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2017, 12:34:54 PM »
It's been about two weeks and I've not yet heard back from the publisher on this.  I doubt I'll get a response.

In any case, I have a couple lightweight VPS's spun up and will probably continue to put the foundation in place for further movement on this project.  I now need to get:

+ mail server working in/out (partially complete)
+ staff wiki for collaboration (thinking mediawiki)
+ forum for player/staff communication (either smf or mybb)
+ code setup on alt server for tp/bp/pp

Should have it done by end of week.  This of course does not mean a "go live" date or even an Alpha version of the game is ready.  It will likely be several months before the world is built, base code updated to include bare minimum features, etc.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am

Reiloth Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #42 on: April 28, 2017, 02:24:11 PM »
It's been about two weeks and I've not yet heard back from the publisher on this.  I doubt I'll get a response.

In any case, I have a couple lightweight VPS's spun up and will probably continue to put the foundation in place for further movement on this project.  I now need to get:

+ mail server working in/out (partially complete)
+ staff wiki for collaboration (thinking mediawiki)
+ forum for player/staff communication (either smf or mybb)
+ code setup on alt server for tp/bp/pp

Should have it done by end of week.  This of course does not mean a "go live" date or even an Alpha version of the game is ready.  It will likely be several months before the world is built, base code updated to include bare minimum features, etc.



Woo hoo!
"You will have useful work: the destruction of evil men. What work could be more useful? This is Beyond; you will find that your work is never done—so therefore you may never know life of peace." ~ Jack Vance

Many Faces Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2017, 03:04:15 AM »
Before you take on staff, I highly recommend you write staff docs explaining your vision for the game, how the staff fit into it, and what staff should/shouldn't do.  It's not enough to just make a game with people you trust.  You don't want to wind up running a game with a couple other people only to find out later they have a different vision of the game and their role in it because you all spoke too vaguely about it.  At that point you're pretty much stuck with them.  It doesn't matter if they're good people with good ideas; if the staff is schizophrenic the players are going to suffer.

Kinjiru Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2017, 11:20:23 AM »
With or without the ASOIAF IP, I'm all about engaging nation-building games. I'm a huge fan of strategy games, so mixing those with RP is a fantasy blend for my tastes.

Orin Offline

Re: [Pitch] ASOIAF RPI
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2017, 05:36:26 PM »
Work and real life has put this on a back burner for me.  I had a senior member of our team quit, so...



I'd still love to see this done, however it won't happen anytime soon.
That which I am is not which I was; I am what I am